I only recall having heard of whoops, howls, and non-vocal noises (breaking things, walking, knocking, &c), but in the past three years BFRO has started acquiring reports and recordings of "chattering". They've also dug up an old (1970s) recording of whistles. Now, are these new developments, or are have they been around the whole time and we just didn't know it? Is this a sign of developed communication, perhaps to the point of speech?
As an interesting sidenote, the Samurai recording (see BFRO) does sound distinctly Asian. Why? What is it that makes up the Asian accent? Also, I could swear I'm hearing the word "umare" in there.
Things to think on:
- Infants have undeveloped vocal tracts, but they learn the rest of the human speech range fairly quickly. [--link--]
- Lots of other primates have advanced vocal communication. What noises do they make? What does their communication involve? (Vocal aspects, gestural aspects....)
- One of the BFRO research teams instructs its members to try to "talk with them". How? On the one hand, the recording indicates a primarily visual-gestural sequence, given that we don't hear the woman making any particular noises. On the other hand, the recording seems to have been cut down to only the important parts - people talking, stuff making noise, etc - maybe they cut out any sounds the woman was making? Worth thinking about.
Books to consult:
- Linguistics text, for information on phonology, primate studies, etc.
- Anthropology text, for information on primate communication, vocal tracts, etc
Saturday, February 09, 2008
Thursday, February 07, 2008
Mothman - Michigan Bridge Collapse
I-35 Bridge Collapse in Michigan
Background Info:
01 August 2007.
Previously called the St. Anthony Bridge
Crosses the Mississippi at Minneapolis
13 deaths?
Bridge built 1967 (the year of the Silver Bridge collapse)
Disaster occured during bumper-to-bumper traffic of rush hour
(Note: Silver Bridge was also part of !-35)
Reports:
Loren Coleman (Cryptomundo) Original Blog
Loren Coleman (Cryptomundo) Follow-up Blog
As far as I can tell, though, there were no actual sightings of the Mothman in Minnesota before, during, or after the incident - admittedly I'm still looking, but you'd think Coleman of all people would have mentioned that little tidbit. The only paranormal event that he remarks on at all is a "Phantom Panther" sighting 16 months before, in Willmar, MN. I don't know much about Phantom Panthers, but I'm kind of not thinking this is hugely important.
All of which just tells me that this Minnesota-bridge-collapse thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the Mothman. In fact, the only creepy thing about it is that it was built in the year the Silver Bridge collapsed - and that could very easily be pure coinkydinky. Perhaps Wikipedia will have some answers.
While that first bit is intriguing, it's worth noting that construction began in 1964 (the bridge was completed in '67). So I'm not sure you could even draw a one-ends-and-another-begins sort of connection there. I was rather hoping for a precise date, but oh well. The "structurally-insufficient" bit also makes the whole thing seem much more ho-hum. I don't know what the story was on the Silver, but on the I-35 bridge, there was plenty of (entirely un-paranormal) warning, if anyone had bothered to pay attention.
In fact, the only really noteworthy bit in the article - noteworthy in the paranormal sense - is the bit about the pollution. And even that might be stretching things a bit too far, y'know? I'm thinking about Chief Cornstalk's curse, here. But his words - at least, the words I have - are "blighted by nature", and this is more of us-blighting-nature, not nature-blighting-us. Coleman seems to have thought along the same lines, judging by his miniature essay on the Native American history behind the area, but...I'm not sure I'm buying it. Priests and Hiawatha really don't have that much to do with Cornstalk. I think. I should go nosing around in my First Peoples book, though - the Hiawatha/Cornstalk thing is ringing a bell somehow. But the only thing I really remember about Hiawatha is that he started the League of Nations, and I'm not sure Cornstalk was a part of that. Was he? Damn the fuzzy memory. Regardless, I think this is too big a stretch, and it also has nothing to do with the Mothman-Gray Man thing, which is much more interesting. So. (Still want to know what this 22-car pile-up is, though.)
Background Info:
01 August 2007.
Previously called the St. Anthony Bridge
Crosses the Mississippi at Minneapolis
13 deaths?
Bridge built 1967 (the year of the Silver Bridge collapse)
Disaster occured during bumper-to-bumper traffic of rush hour
(Note: Silver Bridge was also part of !-35)
Reports:
Loren Coleman (Cryptomundo) Original Blog
Loren Coleman (Cryptomundo) Follow-up Blog
As far as I can tell, though, there were no actual sightings of the Mothman in Minnesota before, during, or after the incident - admittedly I'm still looking, but you'd think Coleman of all people would have mentioned that little tidbit. The only paranormal event that he remarks on at all is a "Phantom Panther" sighting 16 months before, in Willmar, MN. I don't know much about Phantom Panthers, but I'm kind of not thinking this is hugely important.
All of which just tells me that this Minnesota-bridge-collapse thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the Mothman. In fact, the only creepy thing about it is that it was built in the year the Silver Bridge collapsed - and that could very easily be pure coinkydinky. Perhaps Wikipedia will have some answers.
As of early 2008, the NTSB has not reached a determination of probable cause for the collapse, but has identified a possible design error from when the bridge was originally built, which may have caused or contributed to the failure.[9]
The area of the bridge's south abutment was a site of industrial chemical pollution.... The tract's long-term industrial use effectively resulted in a toxic-waste dump below the bridge. ... 5,000 tons (13,600 t) of contaminated soil were removed from below the bridge....
n 1990, the federal government gave the I-35W bridge a rating of "structurally deficient," citing significant corrosion in its bearings. "Structurally deficient" is a classification term which does not in itself indicate a lack of safety. ... In 2005, the bridge was again rated as "structurally deficient" and in possible need of replacement....
Thirteen deaths were attributed to the collapse. The victims, eight males and five females and aged 22 months to 60 years, were all Minnesota residents....
- I-35W Mississippi River bridge, Wikipedia
While that first bit is intriguing, it's worth noting that construction began in 1964 (the bridge was completed in '67). So I'm not sure you could even draw a one-ends-and-another-begins sort of connection there. I was rather hoping for a precise date, but oh well. The "structurally-insufficient" bit also makes the whole thing seem much more ho-hum. I don't know what the story was on the Silver, but on the I-35 bridge, there was plenty of (entirely un-paranormal) warning, if anyone had bothered to pay attention.
In fact, the only really noteworthy bit in the article - noteworthy in the paranormal sense - is the bit about the pollution. And even that might be stretching things a bit too far, y'know? I'm thinking about Chief Cornstalk's curse, here. But his words - at least, the words I have - are "blighted by nature", and this is more of us-blighting-nature, not nature-blighting-us. Coleman seems to have thought along the same lines, judging by his miniature essay on the Native American history behind the area, but...I'm not sure I'm buying it. Priests and Hiawatha really don't have that much to do with Cornstalk. I think. I should go nosing around in my First Peoples book, though - the Hiawatha/Cornstalk thing is ringing a bell somehow. But the only thing I really remember about Hiawatha is that he started the League of Nations, and I'm not sure Cornstalk was a part of that. Was he? Damn the fuzzy memory. Regardless, I think this is too big a stretch, and it also has nothing to do with the Mothman-Gray Man thing, which is much more interesting. So. (Still want to know what this 22-car pile-up is, though.)
Mothman - Galveston.com Post [Draft]
I'm a native of Galveston, and even though I've never actually gone on any of the ghost tours (though I really should), I'll be the first to agree that there are plenty of ghosts to be found. I haven't run into the Wal-Mart orphans, either, but that would explain some stuff.
Regarding the Mothman Prophecies connection (the mention of the Mothman having been seen on the island before the hurricane): I did a little digging (emphasis on the "little"), and ran across a quote from Loren Coleman claiming that there "are no records of Mothman at Chernobyl or Galveston or before any earthquakes". (Coleman is a reasonably well-respected paranormal researcher, who has spent considerable time dealing with the Mothman legend.) I still have to wonder, though. The character never actually says that he was talking about the 1900 hurricane. He never gives a year at all. IMDb says the movie 'mentions the Galveston Texas hurricane of "1969" ', but I don't recall any mention of that year, either. Which raises the question: Since the movie has all of its years and most of its details wrong in the first place (which is fine - it's a thriller, not a documentary), who's to say that's the storm they're actually talking about? Yes, the 1900 storm had a high death toll, but the Mothman's most famous appearance occurs before the Silver Bridge disaster, where the death toll was much, much lower. So - maybe they're talking about a different hurricane?
And on a related note, I also vaguely recall reading something, somewhere, several years ago, about the Gray Man having been seen in Galveston before a storm (the Gray Man being a phenomenon based in the Grand Banks area of North Carolina, usually seen right before hurricanes and other weather-related disasters along the coast).
So my questions are:
(1) Am I mis-remembering this Gray Man thing? Has anyone else heard of it?
(2) Is there any chance that the Gray Man and the Mothman are related?
(3) Could the movie reference to the Mothman in Galveston actually be a confused reference to the Gray Man?
Regarding the Mothman Prophecies connection (the mention of the Mothman having been seen on the island before the hurricane): I did a little digging (emphasis on the "little"), and ran across a quote from Loren Coleman claiming that there "are no records of Mothman at Chernobyl or Galveston or before any earthquakes". (Coleman is a reasonably well-respected paranormal researcher, who has spent considerable time dealing with the Mothman legend.) I still have to wonder, though. The character never actually says that he was talking about the 1900 hurricane. He never gives a year at all. IMDb says the movie 'mentions the Galveston Texas hurricane of "1969" ', but I don't recall any mention of that year, either. Which raises the question: Since the movie has all of its years and most of its details wrong in the first place (which is fine - it's a thriller, not a documentary), who's to say that's the storm they're actually talking about? Yes, the 1900 storm had a high death toll, but the Mothman's most famous appearance occurs before the Silver Bridge disaster, where the death toll was much, much lower. So - maybe they're talking about a different hurricane?
And on a related note, I also vaguely recall reading something, somewhere, several years ago, about the Gray Man having been seen in Galveston before a storm (the Gray Man being a phenomenon based in the Grand Banks area of North Carolina, usually seen right before hurricanes and other weather-related disasters along the coast).
So my questions are:
(1) Am I mis-remembering this Gray Man thing? Has anyone else heard of it?
(2) Is there any chance that the Gray Man and the Mothman are related?
(3) Could the movie reference to the Mothman in Galveston actually be a confused reference to the Gray Man?
Mothman - Sighting in Galveston?
"Mothman. That's what the Ukranians called him. Rough translation, of course. There were sightings in Chernobyl the year the nuclear plantwent down. Galveston, just before the hurricane."LINK: Galveston.com Forums thread
- Alexander Leek, The Mothman Prophecies movie script
I'm unsure about using this as a source, but still, a lead is a lead, right? The "harbinger" thing seems to tally well with the Gray Man.
"Okay here is the "real" story on the Mothman...He has been sighted in over 30 different cities starting with the earliest in Galveston, TX just before the 1900 storm. It's said that he is a harbinger of ill omen, because after each of these sightings a horrible event has occured. The storm in Galveston, A Bridge collapsed in Michigan, a 22 car pile up...etc. The latter I thought the most interesting because everyone at the scene of the accident had seen him at different times during their day They say he normally resembles a being of about 6 to 8 feet tall with no real humanoid body to speak of he appears to resemble an overturned vase covered in Coarse feathers or furs with two large luminous red eyes. They call him the Mothman because some people have claimed to have seen two large wings unfurl from his body"
- heytheyfoundabody, Unexplained Mysteries Forum
Michigan?
22-car pileup? (Where? When? I wish there was more info on this.)
"[The film] contains many elaborately fictionalized situations, such as Gordon Smallwood’s character, and contains little tidbits to support the storyline, such as the “factoids” that Mothman appeared before the Chernobyl meltdown and the Galveston hurricane. But there are no records of Mothman at Chernobyl or Galveston or before any earthquakes...."A considerably more reliable source, and leaving some significant bruises on the Gray Man -Mothman theory. (I don't recall the Chernobyl mention, though - maybe I just missed it? Maybe it's not an explicit reference? I'll have to watch the show again.)
- Loren Coleman, cryptomundo.com
"Factual errors: When John consults the supernatural expert/book author Albert Leek in the library, Leek refers to other times Mothmen have been sited before big disasters. He mentions the Galveston Texas hurricane of "1969" when (at least the famous hurricane that hit that town) it happened in 1900. About 6000 people died."Ah, that fine source of fact. Still: Everyone is assuming they're referring to the Great Storm. I did, too. But Galveston has a lot of hurricanes - maybe there really was one in 1969? Or maybe it was another storm entirely. I mean, I know the 1904 (1905? 06? something like that) was significantly worse than the G.S., even if the death toll was lower. Whose to say we're even looking in the right direction here?- The Mothman Prophecies Goofs, IMDb
1879 Aug 23rd a cat2 with 105mph winds passes just east while heading north.Hm. Nothing listed as 1969, but again - so much in the movie has been warped, who's to say that's the actual year. Also, this list seems incomplete to me. We get hit by tropical storms almost every year, or at least that's how it feels - and yet there are huge freaking gaps here.
1886 June 14th a hurricane with 95mph winds passes just east while moving north.
1888 JUN 16 enter moved SW of Galveston. 13.9" 18 inches of rain in Houston.
1900 the great galveston hurricane kills 8,000 people with a 15ft storm surge even though it was low tide while hitting it traveled 6 to 10 miles inland .The pressure at landfall was 27.55inches with winds of 110mph.Half of Galveston destroyed with 2,600 buildings destroyed & 10,000 people left homeless would have been much worse if not moving so quickly. It is said that a one inch steel hull of an ocean going freighter was pierced through with a piece of lumber.According to the hurricane research division winds were of Category 4 strength at landfall. Newspaper headline | max wind map
1909 in july a 10 ft strom surge with a cat 3 41 killed in texas.
1915 AUG 5th a cat 4 kills 275 ,12' tides flooded Galveston 5' to 6' in the Business District. Winds at Galveston were 97 mph gusts to 110mph putting this in the cat 2 range.Press 970 mb,28.63inches.Seawall prevented a repeat of the 1900 disaster.Causes 50 million in damage max wind field
1932 Aug 14th 145mph winds from the SE direct hit
1934 july 28th, a storm surge of 5.9ft with a cat 2 that passes just east while moving south
1943 july 27th a storm surge of 4 ft with a cat 2,nineteen killed,86mph winds.More
1947 August 24th a minimal hurricane hits.
1959 in july hurricane debra hit with 95mph winds bar 29.07 14.42 inches of rain
1915 a 12 ft s.s 275 killed despite the wall,120mph winds aug 17th.
1983 hurricane Alicia on aug 18th causes 2 bill damage as a cat 2/3 with 71 to 98mph winds in Galveston moving at a forward speed of 8mph. 21 killed 1.2 billion dollars in damage,a 10 to 12 ft storm surge at normal high tide.90% of Dwellings on Jamaica bch destroyed.Many highrise glass buildings sustained heavy damage. Pressure in Galveston was measured at 989mb 29.20 inches at 2:00AM. Damage photo | #2 | max wind field
1989 Oct 15th Jerry 3 dead over 8 million in damage ,85mph winds.The latest a hurricane ever hit the upper Texas coast ----
2001june 5th T.S Allison hits with 60mph winds dumping extremely heavy rain especially inland in the Houston area. Over a 120 hr period houston recorded 36.99 inches of rain.Only 3 tropical systems have produced more rain in this area. T.S Amelia 46.00",T.S Claudette 45.00",unamed 1921 40.00". 41 deaths related to flooding & 5 billion in damage. Allison was finally retired in July of 2002 as the only T-storm to be retired.
- HurricaneCity.com
Okay, just checked the script. It says "the hurricane", which explains why everyone jumps to the conclusion that it was the Great Storm. But could he have been referring to a hurricane, any hurricane? It's not like there haven't been others.... There's no other mention in the script, either.
I'll try to pull a complete list of hurricanes, TSs, and TDs in the Galveston area from the National Hurricane Center later - I think theirs will be much more complete, and give me a better look at the years. But I rather doubt that they'll include information like who saw what sort of paranormal...thing...before which event. Not really their area, you know?
...and as of page 3 in the google search ("mothman in galveston"), I am getting no further relevant hits. Which makes me think that there aren't any Mothman sightings on the Island after all. A shame, but oh well.
Still intrigued by the Mothman-Gray Man angle, though.
Mothman - Chief Cornstalk's Curse
“I was the border man’s friend. Many times I have saved him and his people from harm. I never warred with you, but only to protect our wigwams and lands. I refused to join your paleface enemies with the red coats. I came to the fort as your friend and you murdered me. You have murdered by my side, my young son.... For this, may the curse of the Great Spirit rest upon this land. May it be blighted by nature. May it even be blighted in its hopes. May the strength of its peoples be paralyzed by the stain of our blood.”Translated and misinterpreted, I'm sure, but it does describe the US very clearly.
- Chief Cornstalk, Ghosts of the Paririe: History and Hauntings of Illinois and Beyond
Timeline
1777 - Died 10 November.
1794 - Town established on site of Point Pleasant fort.
1840 - Remains moved to Mason County Court House.
1899 - Monument erected (at court house?)
1909 - Second monument's dedication ceremony postponed because of lightning strike to crane, 21 July.
1909 - Monument dedicated, August.
1921 - Monument struck by lightning, July 4.
1950s - Remains moved to Tu-Endie-Wei Park, and third monument erected.
See above link for possible related disasters.
Mothman - Bones to Gnaw
My Twisted Train of Thought
Mothman Museum
- Who is the Gray Man? History, haunting grounds, etc.
- Possible Gray Man sightings in Galveston?
- "22-car pile-up" quoted by heytheyfoundabody
- Any actual reports available? Without buying the books, anyway.
Mothman Museum
Mothman - General Thoughts
"Investigation of the bridge wreckage pointed to the failure of a single eye-bar in a suspension chain due to a small manufacturing flaw." - Wikipedia ArticleFor the want of a nail? Something to think about.
Another thought. The movie seems to hit most of the pertinent points of the legend, and even if they're a little warped, they're all based in truth. So what's with the mention of Mothman being sighted in Galveston before the 1900 Storm? I've never heard of that. On the other hand, I have heard of the Gray Man being seen at the time - and he pops up in North Carolina (the Grand Banks region) in all sorts of books. I wish I knew the years on those. Is there a connection? That would almost make more sense than the Mothman-UFO thing, anyway.
Something else. Some of these descriptions - fuzzy and outdated and re-worded as they are - do sound vaguely like Bigfoot descriptions. Now, is that just because big tall dark things in the night all look the same, or could some of the Mothman sightings be our fuzzy friend? I'm pretty darned sure he hangs out in that area a lot. On the other hand, Bigfoot is easily confused with bears - at least at night - and bears and the Mothman could also be interchangeable. Tall, dark, strangely shaped but humanoid, glowing red eyes. Not so sure about the red eyes on bears, though. And speaking of tall things with glowing red eyes - any relation to the Uvalde sighting? What the hell was that, anyway? Damn my youth!
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